Life Rant

Isn't forced conversion how the Catholic church spread into northern Europe?

Ah, yes... the old "Catholic" argument. My (admittedly limited) knowledge of European history tells me that most of the violence perpetrated by the Catholic church during the crusades was actually in response to the spread of Muslim authority, which was forced conversion of Europeans.

But of course that aspect of the crusades is rarely mentioned.

Vic

The history of the Catholic Church, the history of Islam, the history of Europe, the bloody history of the world is filled with violence, war, death, and atrocities. Who should be held accountable for these? Appearantly, if you have a connection to a group that has made past wrongs, your opinions and views are automatically void to some. Find me a person who doesn't descend from a past with a violent element because I will vote them to lead us in this chaotic world.

Seriously though, the sad irony of the response by many Muslims is incomprehensible. People need to learn they are not the know all or end all when it comes to moral, political, or social issues.

I am Catholic and I believe that *all* people, the Pope included, are fallible human beings. No one is immune to mistakes or falling back to our emotions or primal responses. And if I am correct in my faith, no one person here on earth can truely judge another. That is for a higher power.

We must live our lives making the best of everyday. Because honestly, if I am wrong in my beliefs, as many millions in the world think I am, who am I to judge? I just have faith I am following the right path.

Why dont all the muslims and christians kill each other, so the hindus and buddhists and atheists can live peacefully?

Take the jews with you while you're at it.

"Why dont all the muslims and christians kill each other, so the hindus and buddhists and atheists can live peacefully?

Take the jews with you while you're at it."

Nice job for representing "your side".

Jerk.

Vic

Vic,

What account of history do you refer to? I haven't seen any accounts in history that states muslims forcefully converted anyone to Islam. Your sources are welcome. Besides, the anger in the Muslim world was the suggestion by the Pope that the Prophet of Islam was "evil and inhumane." That's a misguided, provocative and incorrect statement regardless of who says it or what generation it was said.

All of this just solidifies my belief that all religion is beyond reason.

@Mystillreef:

I dont think the Pope said anything like that. Here is the speech:

http://tinyurl.com/nmnkf

I dont believe there is any way to read it like you suggest.

"My (admittedly limited) knowledge of European history tells me that most of the violence perpetrated by the Catholic church during the crusades was actually in response to the spread of Muslim authority, which was forced conversion of Europeans.

But of course that aspect of the crusades is rarely mentioned."

read up on ya history sunshine, its not mentioned cos it aint true

@Dan Kearns

Did you read the article you linked? The Pope claims he found this quote "interesting".

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

He goes on to argue Islam is an irrational and unreasonable religion because of his understanding of "Jihad". In short, the Pope agrees with the Emperor he quotes. It's ironic, because in the Emperor's time, Christainity wasn't exaclty a less voilent religion.

Actually the pope was trying to make the argument that islam is irrational and that xtians are rational.

Needless to say I find this hilarious calling of the pot black by the kettle. Anybody who believes in any god is befinition irrational.

Anyway it's a bating tactic. It goes like this...

"You are a violent child rapist"!.

I punch you in the face.

"see! you are a violent child rapist!".

Anyway it's pretty clear by now that this is the new crusades. Let's hope it works out better for the xtians then the last one.

"Why dont all the muslims and christians kill each other, so the hindus and buddhists and atheists can live peacefully?

Take the jews with you while you're at it."

Amen.

@mystilleef

For starters, look up "bloody mary" Sure, it was, for the most part Catholic vs Protestant, and there were quite a bit more burnings at the stake than conversions, but well... you get the point.

I'm sure that there are a lot more examples in history, especially in post-Constantine Rome, as well as all through-out the middle ages. If one lord defeated another, the serfs were all forcably converted to the new lord's religion.

If the only thing you care about is Christian-Muslim conversions, outside of the Crusades, the two cultures didn't really have that much contact in Europe, until Christianity settled down and became much less virulent.

I'm sure that if you really cared, digging around Africa would find all sorts of atrocities, including forced conversions. There are a number of Christian nations there, and well... that kind of thing is par for the course in Africa (at least, some parts of Africa).

The idea that people get especially in America is simple the attacks taken in the Name of Islam! So it seems that Muslims may want to disprove these isolated incidents that give there religion the look of being inhumane. Reacting by vowing war, or the killing a Nun, for Gods sake she was working in an Arab Hospital! I don't get it, yes it is ironic! But then again in America anyone can say whatever they want about a religion and people say, " I may not agree with you but, you are intitled to your opinon" Then again it was the Pope maybe he should have known better!

The idea that people get especially in America is simple the attacks taken in the Name of Islam! So it seems that Muslims may want to disprove these isolated incidents that give there religion the look of being inhumane. Reacting by vowing war, or the killing a Nun, for Gods sake she was working in an Arab Hospital! I don't get it, yes it is ironic! But then again in America anyone can say whatever they want about a religion and people say, " I may not agree with you but, you are intitled to your opinon" Then again it was the Pope maybe he should have known better!

The idea that people get especially in America is simple the attacks taken in the Name of Islam! So it seems that Muslims may want to disprove these isolated incidents that give there religion the look of being inhumane. Reacting by vowing war, or the killing a Nun, for Gods sake she was working in an Arab Hospital! I don't get it, yes it is ironic! But then again in America anyone can say whatever they want about a religion and people say, " I may not agree with you but, you are intitled to your opinon" Then again it was the Pope maybe he should have known better!

The idea that people get especially in America is simple the attacks taken in the Name of Islam! So it seems that Muslims may want to disprove these isolated incidents that give there religion the look of being inhumane. Reacting by vowing war, or the killing a Nun, for Gods sake she was working in an Arab Hospital! I don't get it, yes it is ironic! But then again in America anyone can say whatever they want about a religion and people say, " I may not agree with you but, you are intitled to your opinon" Then again it was the Pope maybe he should have known better!

The idea that people get especially in America is simple the attacks taken in the Name of Islam! So it seems that Muslims may want to disprove these isolated incidents that give there religion the look of being inhumane. Reacting by vowing war, or the killing a Nun, for Gods sake she was working in an Arab Hospital! I don't get it, yes it is ironic! But then again in America anyone can say whatever they want about a religion and people say, " I may not agree with you but, you are intitled to your opinon" Then again it was the Pope maybe he should have known better!

Muslims didnt feel angry that he was speaking against violence but about this paragraph ""Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
by the way who is invading the whole world from iraq to afghanistan is it muslims or christians?
ooh i am sorry it is not christians it is coalition forces!

Grow up the lot of you!!
I agree with Joe's statement Sept 18th. All we want is peace so go to war and get it over with. No place in the world for childish accusers and moronic hypocrites.
Why so sensitive anyway? got something to hide?
The Pope is new so what if he made a diplomatic error of judgement. He did apologise diden't he?
To all the other religions in the world well done for keeping out of the stew. Respect all round

I was wondering if this miracle might resolve the situation?

http://www.siliconglen.com/news/2006/09/religious-miracle.html

"Why dont all the muslims and christians kill each other, so the hindus and buddhists and atheists can live peacefully?

Take the jews with you while you're at it."

Amen.

yeah the buddhists are fantastic, nothing like myanmar north korea or cambodia to show us what peace love and mung beans are all about. why dont you shag your arranged child bride pink then sell her to a brothel when your gambling debts get to high you paedophille communist caste loving idolator.

islam forcibly recruit ALL the time-there are no christian churches in islamic countries-in Turkey if you try to convert to jesus-they kill you....
now that might be a moot 'forcible conversion to you....but it is FORCE...n'est pas?

All of this fear and hatred of others comes from one thing. Religion. Why is it that adults, most of them educated, feel the need to not only worship an unseen man in the sky, but also the need to denounce others invisible guy in the sky?

I think what we need to do as a race, the human race, is to make all forms of public religion illegal. If you want to bow down in your own homes, and even collectively bow down in groups in your own homes, that is fine, do what you want in your own home. But you do not need tax breaks, or political clout, or anything else of that nature, it has been proven time, and time again in history that once a religion has any power what so ever, it is used in some way to hold someone else down.

In case you are wondering, I am a deist. I believe there is more to life than this world, but I do not believe they are connected. Think about it, if the world is the perfect invention of an infallible god then what are all these people doing running around claiming things in his name. Pretending to help their invisible guy in the sky is as much an insult as anything to said god. Get a grip, live your life, leave others the hell alone.

Is there any real doubt that Islam is and always has been a violent religion? The history of Christianity goes back much further than the Catholic church and its violent history. The same cannot be said of Islam, because that is how it was established.

long explanation : blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc.

Bottom line : All he had to do was repent and ask for forgiveness and all this could have been avoided. Hows THAT for irony.

Followers of any "hardcore" religion should be locked away for the sanity and peace of the world, but no instead they are everywhere. Presidents, CEO's, millionaires etc...

Why do people need a book, prophet or any other imaginary tale to dictate morality to them. Surely, deep down we all know what is right , what is wrong and what is personal preference? People who need religion are weak. They lack the true courage to follow what they think is right. Having a religion is a good get out clause. Oh and before you go jumping on me, I said RELIGION not faith. I have faith but I don't have a religion.

I've heard people say "I hope these suicide bombers go to hell", I don't. I hope they go nowhere when they die. No heaven, no hell. Just nothing. A waste of their life, but at least better than them remaining alive to spew more propaganda and hatred into the world.

I don't want to spoil what I feel is a valid point but surely the easiest thing to do is just put all the hardcore religious fanatics (Jews, Muslims, Catholics and the rest) in one place n let them fight it out in some form of Survivor: The One True Faith contest? That'll take at least 400-500 years by which time we could have populated a different planet. The meek should inherit the earth, eh?

PS Hardcore Religous Fanatic, in my opinion, is someone willing to proactively attack and murder innocents(not defend themselves) because they disagree over chapters in a book. It is also or anyone who thinks they are superior, special, or chosen, as a hereditory right of their religion.

The fact that people are sympathetic to Islam is scary to me. Christianity is about freedom, while Islam is about slavery.

And despite what the press may say, Islam is not reacting to oppression. They are acting out of hate. They hate anything that is not Islam and will kill anyone who will not convert, even taking their own lives (except for their leaders who hide out in desert caves!).

Ooh Wow objective achieved everyone is sooo...Angry.
Don’t you see they want it that way so they (Bush and cronies) can use this very hatred as a base to achieve their corrupt ideals and get all the money they desire then be rich forever.

He calls them violent, and they react in a violent manner. Hmmm, I think the guy may have a point.

Irony and religion. They don't mix, which is why we are in the mess we are in at the moment.

If you read the Qran, you'll see that half of it are treats against "unbelivers" and ways on how to punish them. Qran is nothing more than a shorten version of the Bible rewritten by a psychopath.

The Pope's speech is more insidious than I'd imagined. Check it out :)

Mystilleef: perhaps not convert, but instead kill - see the genocide of christian armenians by islamic turks, or the current situation in Darfur as exmaples.

My goodness, you guys need to seriously study up on history. Just because something isn't proclaimed by our current biased and bought-out media does not mean it is not true. Here is an article detailing the "dreadful" crusades, complete with sources at the bottom.

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5024

For those of you who think that Christianity is just as violent, consider this: In the past 5 months, Islamic EXTREMISTS have killed more than the Spanish inquisition killed in 350 years. The entire inquisition in Europe killed approx 64,000 people over 350 or so years, still a far cry from what we've seen from the extremists.

Frick, read some books.

Dave,

Thanks for the comment and the link. Part of what cracks me up about the "evil crusades" argument is that they took place centuries ago, when the world in general was a much more barbaric place.

That's yet another evidence of how radical Islam wants the world to go back to where it wsa 900 years ago.

Vic

This is the same tired old argument.

"My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend."

I just cannot believe all this hocus pocus, mumbo jumbo can actually get people killed.

You F-N troglidites need to move into the new age and stop worrying about killing people for insulting your "sun god",

Jews kill palestinians over "holy land".
Take a freakin soil sample, you won't find 1 PPM of holy in it you morons. It's freaking sand.

and...
Jesus ain't coming back for you.
There are no virgins waiting for your ugly butt, anywhere.
Nirvana is(was) a rock band.
Trees contains only sap.
Crystals won't allow you to channel your great uncle fred.
And if your dog tells you to kill someone, kill yourself first.

Nuts.

Sean,

Thanks for your astute comments. Since you obviously have knowledge of everything that exists (or doesn't) in the universe, maybe you could help those poor physicists who are struggling with the Grand Unified Theory.

Vic

So true Vic...so true.

Sean, thanks for the wonderful education you provided us. We have all learned how ignorant you are.

Grow up, and stop generalizing so much. It's not about who's God is better, it is a question of truth vs. lies. And I'm not even speaking on a religious sense.

Too many people have no idea what the Crusades actually were. They're willing to just accept whatever the media spoon feeds them.

And you my friend, are a perfect example of their indoctrination.

Go back to school, the first round didn't take.

What a great comedy - I laughed so hard reading these posts. Vic, you really picked a good one this time.

Am gonna break it down 2 ya guys, islam is seen as one of the most violent religions in the world, yet its also one of the fastin growin religion, in a little while its gonna over populate, Christianity. wat i wanna no, is why? y is it that after the attacks of sept,11, even more ppl converted to tis religion? wat is the world thinkin nowadays?